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Adam
Veteran Poster
Joined: Apr 19, 2003
Posts: 667
Points : 196
Location: Baton Rouge via West Monroe
Status: Offline
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 Posted:
Sat Aug 14, 2004 5:57 pm
Post subject: Playoff ideas? |
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You're the NCAA commissioner (as if there were one). You've decided on a playoff formula--and it's feasible. Go ahead, Mr./Ms. Commish, share your plan with us.
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LEstay
All Around Nice Guy
Joined: Jun 09, 2004
Posts: 1064
Points : 900
Location: Houston, Tx
Status: Offline
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Posted:
Sat Aug 14, 2004 8:17 pm
Post subject: Re: Playoff ideas? |
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| Adam wrote: | | You're the NCAA commissioner (as if there were one). You've decided on a playoff formula--and it's feasible. Go ahead, Mr./Ms. Commish, share your plan with us. |
How about drawing a bracket for a double-elimination tournament. Then assign each slot with a number, and the top 64 teams (based on team schedule and the average of the opponent's schedule) get to draw numbers to pick their slot.
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Sunny
Veteran Poster
Joined: Sep 20, 2003
Posts: 688
Points : 380
Status: Offline
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Posted:
Sat Aug 14, 2004 9:38 pm
Post subject: Re: Playoff ideas? |
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| lestay wrote: | | How about drawing a bracket for a double-elimination tournament. Then assign each slot with a number, and the top 64 teams (based on team schedule and the average of the opponent's schedule) get to draw numbers to pick their slot. |
Ridiculous. Post season would be longer than regular season.
Top 8 teams bracket format
Week 1 - 4 games
Week 2 - 2 games
Week or two off to hype it up
Championship Game.
If they say its too many games, eliminate a throwaway game. Don't be a pussy, play a real team for homecomeing.
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No participation, No reciprication! |
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LEstay
All Around Nice Guy
Joined: Jun 09, 2004
Posts: 1064
Points : 900
Location: Houston, Tx
Status: Offline
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Posted:
Sun Aug 15, 2004 8:35 am
Post subject: Re: Playoff ideas? |
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| Sunny wrote: | | lestay wrote: | | How about drawing a bracket for a double-elimination tournament. Then assign each slot with a number, and the top 64 teams (based on team schedule and the average of the opponent's schedule) get to draw numbers to pick their slot. |
Ridiculous. Post season would be longer than regular season. |
I never meant for that to be serious. I guess I should have noted that.
| Sunny wrote: |
If they say its too many games, eliminate a throwaway game. Don't be a pussy, play a real team for homecomeing. |
Mississippi State is the first team ever to lose homecoming 2wice in one year. We played Troy State in 2001, but our festivities got rained out. We got whooped. Then LSU came in the next week when we were able to do festivities and got whooped again.
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TheDude
I've been around a while
Joined: Feb 01, 2004
Posts: 259
Points : 98
Status: Offline
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Posted:
Sun Aug 15, 2004 11:34 am
Post subject: Re: Playoff ideas? |
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Sorry, but all of y'all's ideas are totally F---ED. The only fair way is to let ONE representative from EACH conference compete. That way, each conference uses its regular season to eliminate the pretenders while they send their one true contender to the playoffs. This is the way basketball and baseball did their playoffs for decades, before the NCAA started becoming socialist and letting just about every school with a winning record--and even some with losing records--in their ridiculously large 64(!) team "tournaments".
The idea of having "at-large" spots for non-qualifiers is where all the controversy began for basketball, baseball, and now football (i.e. why do some good teams not get an at-large spot while other cruddy teams get in?). There was never any controversy at all until the NCAA started letting in non-conference winners into the playoffs. Any way, this transfers the pressure (and controversy) to pick the entrants from the NCAA over to the conferences where it belongs. I've always had a problem with people claiming a team to be #1 over the entire country when they are only #2 in their own conference (see several pollsters picking Oklahoma tops around mid-December of last year). How can you be the best team in the COUNTRY if you aren't even the best team in your own CONFERENCE of 10 or 12 teams?
If there has to be an at-large spot, it should only go to decide which independent teams get in. Also, the NCAA is always threatening to kick the MAC, Big West, etc. down to Division I-A status. Looks like it's finally time to do that.
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Sunny
Veteran Poster
Joined: Sep 20, 2003
Posts: 688
Points : 380
Status: Offline
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Posted:
Sun Aug 15, 2004 5:04 pm
Post subject: Re: Playoff ideas? |
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| TheDude wrote: | Sorry, but all of y'all's ideas are totally F---ED. The only fair way is to let ONE representative from EACH conference compete. That way, each conference uses its regular season to eliminate the pretenders while they send their one true contender to the playoffs. This is the way basketball and baseball did their playoffs for decades, before the NCAA started becoming socialist and letting just about every school with a winning record--and even some with losing records--in their ridiculously large 64(!) team "tournaments".
The idea of having "at-large" spots for non-qualifiers is where all the controversy began for basketball, baseball, and now football (i.e. why do some good teams not get an at-large spot while other cruddy teams get in?). There was never any controversy at all until the NCAA started letting in non-conference winners into the playoffs. Any way, this transfers the pressure (and controversy) to pick the entrants from the NCAA over to the conferences where it belongs. I've always had a problem with people claiming a team to be #1 over the entire country when they are only #2 in their own conference (see several pollsters picking Oklahoma tops around mid-December of last year). How can you be the best team in the COUNTRY if you aren't even the best team in your own CONFERENCE of 10 or 12 teams?
If there has to be an at-large spot, it should only go to decide which independent teams get in. Also, the NCAA is always threatening to kick the MAC, Big West, etc. down to Division I-A status. Looks like it's finally time to do that. |
Bullshit, if you aren't good enough to get into the top 8 you don't deserve to be there.
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No participation, No reciprication! |
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TheDude
I've been around a while
Joined: Feb 01, 2004
Posts: 259
Points : 98
Status: Offline
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Posted:
Sun Aug 15, 2004 6:56 pm
Post subject: Re: Playoff ideas? |
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| Sunny wrote: | | Bullshit, if you aren't good enough to get into the top 8 you don't deserve to be there. |
Again, what if a team isn't even the best team in its own conference but is higher-ranked than thei conference's winner? In other words, you can be #2 (or 3 or whatever) in your own 10-team conference but still qualify to compete for #1 in the nation?
And just WHO decides which teams are the "top 8" any way? Do those losers from the AP decide? Does the coaches' poll? Computers? Some deserving team will no doubt get left out of the playoffs, and some weenie team will no doubt get let in--and then we'll hear the endless whining from a bunch of Big XII pansies who want another undeserving team in the playoffs. At least if you follow my proposal and only let conference winners in, there is absolutely no controversy involved, as the team did exactly what it had to do to qualify for the playoffs under my proposal--win its conference. It's that simple. No stupid pollsters or playoff committees or any of that crap that is laced with HUMAN BIASES.
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Adam
Veteran Poster
Joined: Apr 19, 2003
Posts: 667
Points : 196
Location: Baton Rouge via West Monroe
Status: Offline
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Posted:
Sun Aug 15, 2004 9:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Playoff ideas? |
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| TheDude wrote: | | Sorry, but all of y'all's ideas are totally F---ED. The only fair way is to let ONE representative from EACH conference compete. |
How is that fair? Not every team is in a conference, nor should they be required to be.
| Quote: | | That way, each conference uses its regular season to eliminate the pretenders while they send their one true contender to the playoff |
Are you saying that North Texas, champion of the Sun Belt, was more of a contender than was 12-1 Oklahoma?
| Quote: | | This is the way basketball and baseball did their playoffs for decades, before the NCAA started becoming socialist and letting just about every school with a winning record--and even some with losing records--in their ridiculously large 64(!) team "tournaments". |
65 out of 327 (19.8%) teams make it to the Big Dance every year (56 out of 117 1A teams {47.8%} go to bowl games). The only way to get in with a losing record is to win your conference. Remember, those conference champs are your "true contenders."
| Quote: | | There was never any controversy at all until the NCAA started letting in non-conference winners into the playoffs. |
The NCAA Tourney was once an eight-team bracket. The NIT also had eight teams. The NIT and NCAA both featured top ten teams. Which was the champ? No controversy, you say?
| Quote: | | I've always had a problem with people claiming a team to be #1 over the entire country when they are only #2 in their own conference (see several pollsters picking Oklahoma tops around mid-December of last year). How can you be the best team in the COUNTRY if you aren't even the best team in your own CONFERENCE of 10 or 12 teams? |
Final standings (including the championship game) of the Big XII:- Oklahoma 8-1
- Texas 7-1
- Kansas State 7-2 (champion)
- Nebraska 5-3
- Oklahoma State 5-3
- Texas Tech 4-4
- Missouri 4-4
- Kansas 3-5
- Colorado 3-5
- Texas A&M 2-6
- Baylor 1-7
- Iowa State 0-8
"Champion" and "Best Team" aren't necessarily the same thing. OU clearly was the best Big XII team. Unfortunately for them, they lost the championship game. At that point, they had the best record in the country, and they had a tougher schedule than any other one- (or even two-)loss team. It is quite reasonable to have said at the time (I did) that OU was the #1 team in the nation.
| Quote: | | If there has to be an at-large spot, it should only go to decide which independent teams get in. |
How is that fair? There are two independents! The winner of the Navy/Notre Dame game automatically gets in?
| Quote: | | Also, the NCAA is always threatening to kick the MAC, Big West, etc. down to Division I-A status. Looks like it's finally time to do that. |
The MAC has been 1A since 1947. The Big West was never 1A.
How do we determine the top 8 (or 4 {or 2})? Not sure. I have my ways, and they're entirely mathematical. Math can be fair if:- All teams are made aware of the formula.
- All teams are absolutely equal.
My formula gave me Oklahoma and LSU as the top two teams on December 7. I agreed with the BCS then.
My formula is based on a human bias, but it is a bias toward numbers, not toward teams. The polls are humanly biased toward teams, and what's worse--they get to improvise! If you have a set-in-stone, public mathematical formula, it eliminates team bias and allows teams to take it upon themselves to schedule tougher (or easier, if that's what they want) teams to give themselves a better shot at the prize.
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TheDude
I've been around a while
Joined: Feb 01, 2004
Posts: 259
Points : 98
Status: Offline
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Posted:
Wed Aug 25, 2004 9:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Playoff ideas? |
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| Adam wrote: | | How is that fair? Not every team is in a conference, nor should they be required to be. |
If you had read my entire post, you would see that I covered independent teams.
| Quote: | | Are you saying that North Texas, champion of the Sun Belt, was more of a contender than was 12-1 Oklahoma? |
No. But teams have to be eliminated from contention somehow. OU didn't even win their own conference and didn't earn a right to be in any playoffs, in my opinion (for the record, I also think that the Sunbelt should be demoted to Division I-AA as many have suggested in recent years).
| Quote: | | "Champion" and "Best Team" aren't necessarily the same thing. OU clearly was the best Big XII team. |
Does the score "35-7" mean anything to you?
| Quote: | | It is quite reasonable to have said at the time (I did) that OU was the #1 team in the nation. |
And when they couldn't even finish first in their OWN CONFERENCE, they certainly didn't deserve to have a chance to be first in the ENTIRE NATION.
| Quote: | | If there has to be an at-large spot, it should only go to decide which independent teams get in. How is that fair? There are two independents! The winner of the Navy/Notre Dame game automatically gets in? |
The number of independents fluxuates each year. This year there just happens to be fewer than usual...
| Quote: | | Also, the NCAA is always threatening to kick the MAC, Big West, etc. down to Division I-A status. Looks like it's finally time to do that. The MAC has been 1A since 1947. |
Division I-A didn't begin until a quarter century ago.
| Quote: | | The Big West was never 1A. |
It was until recently. Go look it up.
| Quote: | | All teams are absolutely equal. My formula is based on a human bias, but it is a bias toward numbers |
All teams are equal? This is not socialism, dude. This is America. Capitalism is an incentive-based system. Give schools incentives (i.e. reward conference winners by letting them participate in the playoffs). It's that simple, fair, and uncontroversial...
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Adam
Veteran Poster
Joined: Apr 19, 2003
Posts: 667
Points : 196
Location: Baton Rouge via West Monroe
Status: Offline
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Posted:
Wed Aug 25, 2004 11:11 pm
Post subject: Re: Playoff ideas? |
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| TheDude wrote: | | Adam wrote: | | How is that fair? Not every team is in a conference, nor should they be required to be. |
If you had read my entire post, you would see that I covered independent teams. |
If you had read my entire post, you would see that I read your entire post.
| Quote: | | Quote: | | Are you saying that North Texas, champion of the Sun Belt, was more of a contender than was 12-1 Oklahoma? |
No. But teams have to be eliminated from contention somehow. OU didn't even win their own conference and didn't earn a right to be in any playoffs, in my opinion (for the record, I also think that the Sunbelt should be demoted to Division I-AA as many have suggested in recent years). |
Idaho, ULM, ULL, UNT, MTSU, & TSU are in 1A because they were at the top of 1AA and wanted more competition. Calm down, Skeeter. They ain't botherin' nobody.
| Quote: | | Quote: | | "Champion" and "Best Team" aren't necessarily the same thing. OU clearly was the best Big XII team. |
Does the score "35-7" mean anything to you? |
It means that OU lost a game. KSU lost two. It still is quite reasonable to believe that OU (8-1) was a better Big XII team than KSU (7-2). Just because you're the better team on a certain day doesn't make you the best team over the entire year.
| Quote: | | Quote: | | It is quite reasonable to have said at the time (I did) that OU was the #1 team in the nation. |
And when they couldn't even finish first in their OWN CONFERENCE, they certainly didn't deserve to have a chance to be first in the ENTIRE NATION. |
But they were. The numbers agree with me.
| Quote: | | Quote: | | If there has to be an at-large spot, it should only go to decide which independent teams get in. How is that fair? There are two independents! The winner of the Navy/Notre Dame game automatically gets in? |
The number of independents fluxuates each year. This year there just happens to be fewer than usual... |
All the more reason why independence and conference affiliation should not be considered when drafting a playoff system.
| Quote: | | Quote: | | Also, the NCAA is always threatening to kick the MAC, Big West, etc. down to Division I-A status. Looks like it's finally time to do that. The MAC has been 1A since 1947. |
Division I-A didn't begin until a quarter century ago. |
Division 1A as we know it was called the "University Division" until the late '70's. It's been around since 1937. That is what I'm referring to. If you're referring to the name "1A," then you're correct.
| Quote: | | Quote: | | The Big West was never 1A. |
It was until recently. Go look it up. |
[/quote]Whoops.
| Quote: | | Quote: | | All teams are absolutely equal. My formula is based on a human bias, but it is a bias toward numbers |
All teams are equal? This is not socialism, dude. |
Right. It's sports. Every team is 0-0 with 0 strength of schedule. Right this minute, every team is absolutely equal.
| Quote: | | This is America. Capitalism is an incentive-based system. Give schools incentives (i.e. reward conference winners by letting them participate in the playoffs). It's that simple, fair, and uncontroversial... |
[/quote]That's exactly what I'm saying. Everyone starts at the same point, and the team who goes the furthest wins. Just like in America.
Last edited by Adam on Thu Aug 26, 2004 12:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Sunny
Veteran Poster
Joined: Sep 20, 2003
Posts: 688
Points : 380
Status: Offline
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Posted:
Thu Aug 26, 2004 6:49 am
Post subject: |
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Oklahoma is better than USC because of the Championship game. USC doesn't play a championship game because their conference sucks it hard 
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No participation, No reciprication! |
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