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rwnugent
Sexiest Man Alive
Joined: Sep 16, 2003
Posts: 2353
Points : 1262
Location: baton rouge
Status: Offline
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 Posted:
Sat Jan 29, 2005 11:22 pm
Post subject: America's longest war. |
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Does anyone know what America's longest most costly war is? It has been raging for more than three deacades now. It cost over $19,000,000,000 in 2003 and it is still going strong as a matter of fact the budget for it was increased by a billion dollars for this year. This war is the U.S "War on Drugs". Every year thousands are killed and hundreds of thousands are incarcerated in the name of stopping American drug use. I think that our drug laws should be relaxed if not done away with and rewritten entirely. Think about it people. Early in the 20th century the government tried in vain to prohibit alcohol manufacture and use, and it failed miserably and was soon repealed. Why does the federal government think it will ever be any more successful with other drugs. The simple fact is: If someone wants a substance they will find a way to get it. I'm not saying we should throw crack cocaine out as if it were Mardi Gras beads but we could do a lot to lessen teh effects of the "war on drugs". The way I see it if drugs were legal and controlled by the federal government it would put your average drug dealer out of buisiness thus preventing violent crimes caused by dealers fighting over territory or money. The government could tax drugs thereby profiting from and not spending our tax dollars fighting an unpopular war. I'd like to hear your opinions and reasoning behind your opinions.
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"That´s my opinion I could be wrong." -Dennis Miller
Procrastination is like masturbation. It seems like a good idea at the time time but in the end you´re just fucking yourself. |
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Earl
Da' Man
Joined: Oct 17, 2003
Posts: 672
Points : 102
Location: LA
Status: Offline
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Posted:
Sun Jan 30, 2005 3:34 am
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 I defended the war on drugs in student congress many-a-time in 2003. I will give you a full rebuttal in the morning. I am too tired to argue right now.
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rwnugent
Sexiest Man Alive
Joined: Sep 16, 2003
Posts: 2353
Points : 1262
Location: baton rouge
Status: Offline
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Posted:
Wed Feb 02, 2005 4:03 pm
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I think this article puts some things into perspective as to how rabid some politicians can be in the 'War on Drugs'. This so-called war is nothing more than an excuse to feed the white elephant that drug enforcement agencies have become. The simple fact of the matter is, that they can't actually stop drug use in this country but since they have poured so much money into they have to keep it going or else it will be viewed as a massive failure (which it is) by the majority of Americans. I guarantee you that if I wanted to I could go and purchase any controlled substance I want to right now. The only reason to keep the drug war going is to prevent the lay-off of a few thousand cops. Actually there wouldn't be a need for their lay-off. If so many of our nation's law enforcement resources weren't being wasted trying to stop the unstoppable they could focus on important things they could prevent like terrorism.
If none of the above bothers you taske a look at this. The RAVE Act was passed by slyly attaching it to the Amber Alert bill but now the Supreme Court is very obviously going to shred the constitution a little bit.
Last edited by rwnugent on Thu Feb 24, 2005 7:50 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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"That´s my opinion I could be wrong." -Dennis Miller
Procrastination is like masturbation. It seems like a good idea at the time time but in the end you´re just fucking yourself. |
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Christian
I've been around a while
Joined: Sep 06, 2004
Posts: 219
Points : 30
Status: Offline
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Posted:
Wed Feb 02, 2005 11:09 pm
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Drugs are bad m'kay?
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rwnugent
Sexiest Man Alive
Joined: Sep 16, 2003
Posts: 2353
Points : 1262
Location: baton rouge
Status: Offline
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Posted:
Thu Feb 24, 2005 7:48 pm
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| Earl wrote: | | I defended the war on drugs in student congress many-a-time in 2003. I will give you a full rebuttal in the morning. I am too tired to argue right now. |
originally posted on Jan. 30. I'm still waiting for that rebuttal.
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"That´s my opinion I could be wrong." -Dennis Miller
Procrastination is like masturbation. It seems like a good idea at the time time but in the end you´re just fucking yourself. |
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DuckMedic
I'm a Newbie!
Joined: Apr 08, 2003
Posts: 18
Points : 10
Status: Offline
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Posted:
Fri Feb 25, 2005 7:56 pm
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The rulings mentain in above article undermines the Fourth Amendment , and i agree with that laws concering the drug problems in america have gone a little over the top. i don't agree with all your opinions, but i agree there needs to be reopening of debate in public forum on the war on drugs.
I still belive we need to keep drugs like herion, crystel meth, cocain, and other drugs of like illegeal. But so far we spent so much time and money to send drug dealers to jail and attack the production of drugs. We not spent as much on education and treatment of those addicted to drugs. Cut the demand for it and drugs will become less profiable. But hey that my opinion and it changes as i learn more. But i don't think i could ever support the legelation of drugs..
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rwnugent
Sexiest Man Alive
Joined: Sep 16, 2003
Posts: 2353
Points : 1262
Location: baton rouge
Status: Offline
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Posted:
Fri Feb 25, 2005 8:34 pm
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I don't understand how you can understand the need for drug education and be of almost the same opinion as me on the subject (needless costs incurred by the war on drugs) and yet you say you can't support the legalization of drugs. Think of how much tax money would be saved and other projects that could be funded by that tax revenue if the war on drugs was brought to an end. The simple fact remains that if someone wants to do drugs they will find a way to get them and to most people the chance of getting caught isn't much of a deterrent. Some of the draconian laws with minimum sentences for relatively small amounts of some drugs send basically good and otherwise law abiding citizens to prison for absurd amounts of time. While pretty much ruining this persons life they will mst likely turn violent in prison due to the effects of any prison. Almost as likely is the chance that they will learn more about committing other crimes while in prison and develop a criminal life upon release. Why not just educate people more about and more truthfully about drugs and their effects instead of ruining perfectly good citizens lives by sending them to prison. What I mean by more truthfully educating people is that they should explain how drugs affect teh body and some of the possible bad effects of using them. Don't just throw a 30 second spot on TV which shows an egg in a frying pan and says "This is your brain on drugs. Any questions?". Of course anyone with an IQ over 15 is going to have some questions. This line of deterrence doesn't work because after hearing that crap and then getting curious and trying drugs they see that their brain obviously did not fry and they had a good time and it made them feel good they call bullshit on the PSA and head off to ignorantly begin abusing drugs without knowing any real factual information about them. There are websites such Dancesafe.org and The Vaults of Erowid that have lots of factual information and Dancesafe even has a message board where people can ask questions and share experiences to learn for truthfully about drugs. If the government would pursue drug education in this manner instead of bullshit PSAs it would work a lot better.
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"That´s my opinion I could be wrong." -Dennis Miller
Procrastination is like masturbation. It seems like a good idea at the time time but in the end you´re just fucking yourself. |
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TheDude
I've been around a while
Joined: Feb 01, 2004
Posts: 259
Points : 98
Status: Offline
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Posted:
Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:47 pm
Post subject: Re: America's longest war. |
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| rwnugent wrote: | | Early in the 20th century the government tried in vain to prohibit alcohol manufacture and use, and it failed miserably and was soon repealed. |
Actually, alcohol use did go down a good bit, but a lot of local governments couldn't (or wouldn't) stop the organized crime behind the illegal alcohol trade. Today, things are different, because the Feds oversee most of the drug war effort, so there is less of a problem of police and public officials ignoring (or collaborating with) drug pushers.
| Quote: | | The government could tax drugs thereby profiting from and not spending our tax dollars fighting an unpopular war. |
What bullshit...have you considered about all of our tax-dollars that will have to be spent for welfare money to support drugees who can't (or won't) hold a job because of their addiction and kids "raised" by junkies if drugs were readily available EVERYWHERE. Crack addicts will blow their own grandmother's head off just to get a few bucks for their next hit; having drugs easily available encourages use of em. These are not the kind of people we want walking the streets! Fortunately, by keeping drugs illegal, there is a stigma attached to users as law-breakers, and we should keep it that way...
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rwnugent
Sexiest Man Alive
Joined: Sep 16, 2003
Posts: 2353
Points : 1262
Location: baton rouge
Status: Offline
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Posted:
Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:59 pm
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| TheDude wrote: | | Today, things are different, because the Feds oversee most of the drug war effort, so there is less of a problem of police and public officials ignoring (or collaborating with) drug pushers. |
Wanna talk about bullshit? I can provide dates names and times where elected public officials and law enforcement officers have collaborated with and profited from drug traffic.
| TheDude wrote: | | have you considered about all of our tax-dollars that will have to be spent for welfare money to support drugees who can't (or won't) hold a job because of their addiction and kids "raised" by junkies if drugs were readily available EVERYWHERE. Crack addicts will blow their own grandmother's head off just to get a few bucks for their next hit; |
About the same amount we spend now? Like I said before anyone who wants a substance will find a way to get it legally or not. If you legalize drugs the users could be contained in certain areas and monitored more efficiently.
| TheDude wrote: | | having drugs easily available encourages use of em. |
No it doesn't. Ignorance caused by uninformative PSAs and use of scare tactics which are proved to be totally untrue the first time someone tries a drug is what encourages their use. I'll go ahead and let you in on a little secret, drugs are not that hard to obtain right now, they just happen to be illegal.
| TheDude wrote: | | These are not the kind of people we want walking the streets! |
So in other words there are none walking the streets right now?
| TheDude wrote: | | Fortunately, by keeping drugs illegal, there is a stigma attached to users as law-breakers, and we should keep it that way... |
...because?
Because it makes you feel better that you are somehow superior to someone who uses drugs? Because as long as you have your news reports of drug users and dealers being arrested you can sleep well at night comforatble in the knowledge that your tax dollars are hard at work keeping you safe? Because as long as drugs are illegal you will always know that you have been right all this time?
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"That´s my opinion I could be wrong." -Dennis Miller
Procrastination is like masturbation. It seems like a good idea at the time time but in the end you´re just fucking yourself. |
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Trunks
Regular
Joined: Feb 07, 2005
Posts: 177
Points : 268
Status: Offline
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Posted:
Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:15 pm
Post subject: Re: America's longest war. |
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| TheDude wrote: |
What bullshit...have you considered about all of our tax-dollars that will have to be spent for welfare money to support drugees who can't (or won't) hold a job because of their addiction and kids "raised" by junkies if drugs were readily available EVERYWHERE. Crack addicts will blow their own grandmother's head off just to get a few bucks for their next hit; having drugs easily available encourages use of em. These are not the kind of people we want walking the streets! Fortunately, by keeping drugs illegal, there is a stigma attached to users as law-breakers, and we should keep it that way... |
We already spend the money on prisons. The way the current welfare laws are people don’t stay on welfare forever. I think its difficult to support the idea that tax dollars will be used to support addicts.
Having a stigma attached to law-breakers is ok. Except when you have nearly 100% of your population breaking the law, and that is the case in this country. The stigma is not that drugs are illegal, people know the effects of illegal drugs.
Legalized / decriminalization drug programs would be a right step in helping people that are in to far with substance abuse.
For Example: Gambling is illegal most places, but not all. Casino’s in many places are required to pay tax, or some fees to charities or public programs for gambling addiction. The same could be true for drugs.
Most all drugs that are illegal now have a corresponding, legal counter part. The so called War on Drugs is persecution of drug users.
The persecution of drug users seems to me more of a Eugenics issue, not a criminal law issue. I don’t know if I like the government in the United States is supposed to take a role in steering people to happiness. I believe the idea is that people are free to pursue it. (and that the government needs to take steps to protect “
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rwnugent
Sexiest Man Alive
Joined: Sep 16, 2003
Posts: 2353
Points : 1262
Location: baton rouge
Status: Offline
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Posted:
Wed Mar 02, 2005 7:53 pm
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I agree with Trunks on this one. I seem to recall something somewhere in an official U.S. government document about life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
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____________
"That´s my opinion I could be wrong." -Dennis Miller
Procrastination is like masturbation. It seems like a good idea at the time time but in the end you´re just fucking yourself. |
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TheDude
I've been around a while
Joined: Feb 01, 2004
Posts: 259
Points : 98
Status: Offline
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Posted:
Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:00 pm
Post subject: Re: America's longest war. |
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| Trunks wrote: | | Casino’s in many places are required to pay tax, or some fees to charities or public programs for gambling addiction. The same could be true for drugs. |
Why allow an addiction-causing venue to be legalized in the first place, if we know that the problem is going to end up being so bad that the problem-maker needs to be taxed to pay for treatment of the addicts?
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rwnugent
Sexiest Man Alive
Joined: Sep 16, 2003
Posts: 2353
Points : 1262
Location: baton rouge
Status: Offline
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Posted:
Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:48 pm
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Why be selective in what vices are legal and which aren't? Why is it ok for members of Congress and other politicians and lawmakers to sit around in their social clubs and country clubs and smoke expensive cigars while making it illegal for your average blue collar worker to go to a pub and have a beer and and a cigarette after work? Why is it that alcohol is perfectly legal yet it is just as addictive and damaging as any other drug? I think Trunks idea of having certain venues for some drugs or even something like a red light district type place where users could go and anyone who didn't approve of such behavior could simply avoid that place.
The real reason behind keeping the "War on Drugs" going is that it is a white elephant and it has to be kept alive. Whether or not it is successful (and it certainly has not been) is irrelevant to those funding it. To pull out now woyuld be to admit defeat in some people's eyes and that of course is unacceptable. The fact is that the war would be more successful if the powers that be would change tactics as I have written about before. Maybe it's like every other change that has taken place in this country. It will probably take decades or maybe a hundred or more years but I think that eventually the change will take place, and like all the other changes in this country after it does everyone will wonder how we could have let it go for so long.
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"That´s my opinion I could be wrong." -Dennis Miller
Procrastination is like masturbation. It seems like a good idea at the time time but in the end you´re just fucking yourself. |
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patt
I'm a Newbie!
Joined: Apr 26, 2005
Posts: 14
Points : 24
Status: Offline
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Posted:
Fri May 27, 2005 8:36 pm
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i think you have a point.but i dont entirely agree.but i like the way you think.
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Soyuz
Semi-regular
Joined: Jun 16, 2005
Posts: 39
Points : 128
Status: Offline
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Posted:
Fri Jun 17, 2005 12:25 am
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Drug war will never be stopped because it is efficient. It keeps things running. More than that, many "drug campaigns" in Columbia have been supported by CIA and some of the stories became public domain. Don't think in white and black... think in terms of money. Economy works and runs as long as you are spending money. War on drugs is a way to spend money and a reason to keep them flowing. At the same time on the other side there is the opportunity to "wash" some money... and we are talking here about sums of money with many zeroes.... 
You would be amazed to find out how much of this drug "fantasy" is actually maintained by CIA... That's the way the things work and they won't drop it unless something else becomes more efficient... like war on terrorism?
Soyuz
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