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Poll
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| Whose untimely death had the worst effect on music? |
| Robert Johnson |
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0% |
[ 0
] |
| Buddy Holly |
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25% |
[ 1
] |
| Jimi Hendrix |
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0% |
[ 0
] |
| John Lennon |
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50% |
[ 2
] |
| Stevie Ray Vaughan |
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25% |
[ 1
] |
| Kurt Cobain |
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0% |
[ 0
] |
| Total Votes
: 4 |
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Adam
Veteran Poster
Joined: Apr 19, 2003
Posts: 667
Points : 196
Location: Baton Rouge via West Monroe
Status: Offline
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 Posted:
Sat Apr 23, 2005 9:31 pm
Post subject: Whose death had the worst effect? |
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and why?
I say definitely John Lennon. "Working Class Hero" was a prelude to grunge, which was good while it lasted, so Lennon was capable of everything (and more) that Cobain did.
He also "retired" from music in 1975, which was directly followed by disco. Then he returned in 1980, recorded half an album, got killed, and then new wave followed.
Jimi's death couldn't have had too bad of an effect--Zeppelin, the Who, and the Stones (not to mention rising stars David Bowie & Pink Floyd) made sure rock 'n' roll was in good hands.
Kurt's death is arguably the worst, but it's arguable that it wasn't untimely. It was known that he was a) unhappy, and b) rich enough to retire. Nirvana would have put out probably one more album in 1997 or something and then called it quits. And the Foo Fighters, a good band, may never have gotten together. Hard to tell.
Robert Johnson--just as technology was delayed almost 200 years by the Crusades, music was delayed 20 years by RJ's death. RNR may have preceded WWII had it not been for Rob.
Within a year, Buddy Holly died, Little Richard became a minister, Elvis got drafted, Chuck Berry got arrested for being a pervert, and Bill Haley got bored, leaving us Bobby Vee, Bobby Vinton, Bobby Darin, and Bobby Sherman. Had it not been for the Beatles, Buddy Holly takes the cake.
SRV--music sucked before and after him, so he didn't really change anything so much as he reinforced what it means to be a real man.
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Norris
Mr. Negative Nancy
Joined: May 12, 2004
Posts: 736
Points : 370
Location: the N.O.
Status: Offline
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Posted:
Sun Apr 24, 2005 12:06 am
Post subject: |
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i agree with you, definitely John Lennon. No one else even comes close. I don't really agree with some of your reasons for the others, but I'm not as wise about music as you are.
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TheDude
I've been around a while
Joined: Feb 01, 2004
Posts: 259
Points : 98
Status: Offline
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Posted:
Sun Apr 24, 2005 1:23 pm
Post subject: |
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| Adam wrote: | | I say definitely John Lennon. "Working Class Hero" was a prelude to grunge, which was good while it lasted, so Lennon was capable of everything (and more) that Cobain did. He also "retired" from music in 1975, which was directly followed by disco. Then he returned in 1980, recorded half an album, got killed, and then new wave followed. |
While I agree that Lennon should be commended for not selling out to disco like many other great pre-disco bands did in full or in part, I think that you are giving him too much credit for influence in his later years here. Most of influence came when he was with the Beatles, but then he concentrated on hippy issues for a number of years afterward. His death was more notable for the fact that it would prevent the Beatles from ever getting back together, but the Beatles didn't really appear to be getting back together around the time of his death.
| Quote: | | Jimi's death couldn't have had too bad of an effect--Zeppelin, the Who, and the Stones (not to mention rising stars David Bowie & Pink Floyd) made sure rock 'n' roll was in good hands. |
Agreed.
| Quote: | | Kurt's death is arguably the worst, but it's arguable that it wasn't untimely. It was known that he was a) unhappy, and b) rich enough to retire. Nirvana would have put out probably one more album in 1997 or something and then called it quits. And the Foo Fighters, a good band, may never have gotten together. Hard to tell. |
Cobain may have been too messed up (probably depressed, on heroin, and married to someone with similar issues) that I agree that Nirvana was near its end. The garage band trend that he helped start didn't change much when he died, although it was much more weak. It generally lasted until about 2000 when Billboard's "Modern Rock" chart began to be dominated with bands that have more of an active rock/rap combo-influenced sound like Limp Bizkit and Linkin Park.
| Quote: | | Robert Johnson--just as technology was delayed almost 200 years by the Crusades, music was delayed 20 years by RJ's death. RNR may have preceded WWII had it not been for Rob. |
I agree that Johnson is one of the all-time greats. But I'm not sure that I agree about the chances of RnR existing pre-War. RnR grew out of disenchanted youth out of America's newly-created (post-War) middle class...young people who felt guilty about being the first generation to have everything they needed growing up, without earning it or fighting for it, while people were suffering everywhere else in the world. To this day, 50 years after its inception, rock's most rabid fans are mostly young people who were spoiled rotten by their parents and end up becoming very self-righteous and protest everything their parents have supported. Maybe you are saying that the zoot-suit wearers of the Great Depression may have become the first rock-n-rollers, but I just don't think that the world was ready for rock yet.
| Quote: | | Within a year, Buddy Holly died, Little Richard became a minister, Elvis got drafted, Chuck Berry got arrested for being a pervert, and Bill Haley got bored, leaving us Bobby Vee, Bobby Vinton, Bobby Darin, and Bobby Sherman. Had it not been for the Beatles, Buddy Holly takes the cake. |
Buddy Holly is definitely the answer to your question. His death CLEARED THE PATH for the Beatles. You forget the others on the plane that crashed that day: the Big Bopper and Richie Valens. The "Day the Music Died", as they call it, simply changed Rock forever...the days of American individuals dominating the music scene ended completely, and a growing disaffected youth in a newly-rebuilt, post-war Europe led to a new form of rock, with 4-member bands rather than individual performers, who began arriving on American soil via the so-called "British Invasion". In the mid-1960s some bands that performed "soul" music helped put the U.S. back on the map a little, and Vietnam War opposition further accellerated the creation of white protest-rock bands in the States. The change in rock after Buddy Holly's death as opposed to after the deaths of the other artists that you list here is uncomparable. Rock was still dominated by individual performers when he was around, so individuals had much more influence when they died. Today, bands have several members and can continue on even long after individual members quit the band--or die.
| Quote: | | SRV--music sucked before and after him, so he didn't really change anything so much as he reinforced what it means to be a real man. |
Agreed. There are too many bands and forms of rock music for people to listen to today for any particular person to influence it so much if they died suddenly. In the old days, all popular bands were played on the same radio stations. These days, we have format-driven radio, so if a band member of an influential pop group dies, while pop fans may be distraught, R&B fans may not have listen to pop radio stations enough to know, or care, about the pop musician who died...
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littlesheep
I've been around a while
Joined: Oct 09, 2004
Posts: 249
Points : 18
Status: Offline
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Posted:
Sun Apr 24, 2005 6:23 pm
Post subject: |
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| TheDude wrote: | | Adam wrote: | | I say definitely John Lennon. "Working Class Hero" was a prelude to grunge, which was good while it lasted, so Lennon was capable of everything (and more) that Cobain did. He also "retired" from music in 1975, which was directly followed by disco. Then he returned in 1980, recorded half an album, got killed, and then new wave followed. |
While I agree that Lennon should be commended for not selling out to disco like many other great pre-disco bands did in full or in part, I think that you are giving him too much credit for influence in his later years here. Most of influence came when he was with the Beatles, but then he concentrated on hippy issues for a number of years afterward. His death was more notable for the fact that it would prevent the Beatles from ever getting back together, but the Beatles didn't really appear to be getting back together around the time of his death.
| Quote: | | Jimi's death couldn't have had too bad of an effect--Zeppelin, the Who, and the Stones (not to mention rising stars David Bowie & Pink Floyd) made sure rock 'n' roll was in good hands. |
Agreed.
| Quote: | | Kurt's death is arguably the worst, but it's arguable that it wasn't untimely. It was known that he was a) unhappy, and b) rich enough to retire. Nirvana would have put out probably one more album in 1997 or something and then called it quits. And the Foo Fighters, a good band, may never have gotten together. Hard to tell. |
Cobain may have been too messed up (probably depressed, on heroin, and married to someone with similar issues) that I agree that Nirvana was near its end. The garage band trend that he helped start didn't change much when he died, although it was much more weak. It generally lasted until about 2000 when Billboard's "Modern Rock" chart began to be dominated with bands that have more of an active rock/rap combo-influenced sound like Limp Bizkit and Linkin Park.
| Quote: | | Robert Johnson--just as technology was delayed almost 200 years by the Crusades, music was delayed 20 years by RJ's death. RNR may have preceded WWII had it not been for Rob. |
I agree that Johnson is one of the all-time greats. But I'm not sure that I agree about the chances of RnR existing pre-War. RnR grew out of disenchanted youth out of America's newly-created (post-War) middle class...young people who felt guilty about being the first generation to have everything they needed growing up, without earning it or fighting for it, while people were suffering everywhere else in the world. To this day, 50 years after its inception, rock's most rabid fans are mostly young people who were spoiled rotten by their parents and end up becoming very self-righteous and protest everything their parents have supported. Maybe you are saying that the zoot-suit wearers of the Great Depression may have become the first rock-n-rollers, but I just don't think that the world was ready for rock yet.
| Quote: | | Within a year, Buddy Holly died, Little Richard became a minister, Elvis got drafted, Chuck Berry got arrested for being a pervert, and Bill Haley got bored, leaving us Bobby Vee, Bobby Vinton, Bobby Darin, and Bobby Sherman. Had it not been for the Beatles, Buddy Holly takes the cake. |
Buddy Holly is definitely the answer to your question. His death CLEARED THE PATH for the Beatles. You forget the others on the plane that crashed that day: the Big Bopper and Richie Valens. The "Day the Music Died", as they call it, simply changed Rock forever...the days of American individuals dominating the music scene ended completely, and a growing disaffected youth in a newly-rebuilt, post-war Europe led to a new form of rock, with 4-member bands rather than individual performers, who began arriving on American soil via the so-called "British Invasion". In the mid-1960s some bands that performed "soul" music helped put the U.S. back on the map a little, and Vietnam War opposition further accellerated the creation of white protest-rock bands in the States. The change in rock after Buddy Holly's death as opposed to after the deaths of the other artists that you list here is uncomparable. Rock was still dominated by individual performers when he was around, so individuals had much more influence when they died. Today, bands have several members and can continue on even long after individual members quit the band--or die.
| Quote: | | SRV--music sucked before and after him, so he didn't really change anything so much as he reinforced what it means to be a real man. |
Agreed. There are too many bands and forms of rock music for people to listen to today for any particular person to influence it so much if they died suddenly. In the old days, all popular bands were played on the same radio stations. These days, we have format-driven radio, so if a band member of an influential pop group dies, while pop fans may be distraught, R&B fans may not have listen to pop radio stations enough to know, or care, about the pop musician who died... |
I am so proud how smart u are! 
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rwnugent
Sexiest Man Alive
Joined: Sep 16, 2003
Posts: 2353
Points : 1262
Location: baton rouge
Status: Offline
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Posted:
Mon Apr 25, 2005 7:21 pm
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It would either be Cobain or Lennon. Both great artists who died too soon. If both of them were alive today I think they would both still be putting out great music.
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"That´s my opinion I could be wrong." -Dennis Miller
Procrastination is like masturbation. It seems like a good idea at the time time but in the end you´re just fucking yourself. |
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